Noto Sans: U+03C6 is shown with Capitel PHI (like U+03D5), instead of small phi

[reforest8084]

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Title

Noto Sans: U+03C6 is shown with Capitel PHI (like U+03D5), instead of small phi

Font

NotoSans-Regular.ttf

Where the font came from, and when

Site: https://fonts.google.com/noto/specimen/Noto+Sans
Date: 2024-08-27

Font Version

• Win -- 2.013

OS name and version

Windows 11

Application name and version

any

Issue

U+03C6 is shown as U+03D5, instead of a typical small phi

Character data

U+03C6

Screenshot

[DLasher106]

Additional info:

This error affects Noto Sans Roman. Italic is correct.

Noto Serif (Roman and Italic) is correct.

Noto Sans Mono has the opposite problem; U+03D5 is loopy.

[moyogo]

U+03C6 can have several shapes. This is not a bug, it's a design choice.

The Noto Sans Mono issue for U+03D5 is already reported in #414.

[reforest8084]

For me, this feels not like a different shape. As shown in comparison above U+03C6 is the same in all those fonts (...Sans|Mono|Serif) except the Noto Sans Regular. It's exact the same for U+03D5, just the other way round.

In Noto Sans Math, U+03C6 is correct, also in Noto Sans Display. (small "φ"(phi))

Comparing with Arial Unicode the same: small phi is always shown as "φ"(phi) as a common standard.

[DLasher106]

Unicode TR#25 says:

Fonts used primarily for Greek text may use either glyph form for U+03C6, but fonts that also
intend to support technical use of the Greek letters should use the loopy form to contrast
with the straight form used for U+03D5.

It seems to me that Noto is “intended to support technical use” — the very presence of 03D5 confirms this. And you would not want users accidentally using 03C6 for the math symbol out of confusion.

[moyogo]

Noto Sans Math should be used for Math.

[moyogo]

@simoncozens Would it make sense to have a stylistic set substitution or a similar features to have a loopy U+03C6 in Noto Sans?

[simoncozens]

People always want to add new glyphs and stylistic alternates to support their preferred styles of glyph. These aren't free, they cost disk space on every system which ships Noto Sans/Serif, and there's a lot of those. I don't think a font should be infinitely customisable; designers have the right to choose what they think is the most appropriate design. Other fonts are available if the user doesn't like that choice.