Zoom.us (Replace Google Hangouts/Meet) ? #521
Comments
nelsonic
added
enhancement
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Very happy to try zoom, my only question was if they provide a client for linux, but they do! |
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I have used Zoom once before, when I was having a call with some folks about a talk, in September 2017 so I'm out of date on how good it might be. Very happy to test this out, the recording feature alone is likely worth its weight in gold if it works well 🚀 An *opt-out newsletter as part of signing up 😕: Doesn't allow me to try anything without going back to my email address for the activation link: Sheesh, give me a second, I haven't even tried out the app yet, I can't go recommending it to other people! OK, looks like each person has a personal URL and it never changes. We're in! Looks like it opaquely downloaded and installed a small application when you click on 'Open zoom.us' (which as a dialogue gives you no indication that this will happen), very cheeky! Let's try this out and evaluate 👍 |
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@iteles thanks for diving in. Do you feel that we can test Zoom.us for our CS Retro call today? |
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Already updated the invite 20 mins ago 👍 |
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@iteles cool. 🎉 Keyboard shortcuts: https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/205683899-Hot-Keys-and-Keyboard-Shortcuts-for-Zoom |
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Native app means we get pop-over faces and can still look at content full-screen. 😮 |
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First impressions I felt that zoom was pretty good. Other than the page not loading and having to get the app I felt it went pretty smoothly. Pros
ConsOne link works but the other didn't (can't see why though 😕)
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I was quite happy with our trial. It seemed to handle all six of us with our videos displayed with no problems, which is more that can be said for Google Meet. Like Rob said, it was easy to connect. I like the desktop app as it means I don't have to go looking through my emails for the right hangout link. The biggest problem I've had with Meet is that my microphone doesn't work half the time when I connect to a call. It's too early to say whether using Zoom will fix that or if it's purely a problem on my end, but so far so good. |
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Our first call was good and without any issues (sound or video). |
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We might need to find a way to allow people to join a video call without the "host" when she's not available. |
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Can't join without @iteles ... 😕 |
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I feel like Zoom worked fine for our recent retrospective. I like the 'hand up' feature that @RobStallion came across. But like @iteles I was frustrated/confused by the initial set up journey and feel this could be confusing for clients. |
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Reporting back on recordings as I've been the only person to have access to these:
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Just FYI - it's now possible to record G'Meetings - https://support.google.com/meet/answer/7557124?co=GENIE.Platform%3DDesktop&hl=en (Yes, I know that doesn't solve any of the other issues!) |
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It's the least worst solution I've used. It scales well (as long as
everyone is polite), we use it for all-hands calls with around 80 (mostly
muted) participants.
Recording calls has historically been pretty taxing on the host machine,
but only in as much as you will notice your fans spinning.
Linux + tiling window managers have had problems with screen sharing in the
past, but folks seem to have found configs that work now.
I mildly recommend it, but I also **wouldn't** use anything else right now.
O!
…On Wed, 6 Feb 2019, 08:36 Ines Teles Correia ***@***.*** wrote:
Reporting back on *recordings* as I've been the only person to have
access to these:
- The recordings have worked well and have saved to my local machine:
[image: image]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/4185328/52306677-8088f700-2990-11e9-9094-11755a8fc329.png>
- Having these in Zoom starts at an extra €37/month
- The only thing to note about these is that they do not show everyone
on the call at once, only the person talking, even though when we are on
the call itself we see everyone in the little side panel as @nelsonic
<https://github.com/nelsonic> noted here: #521 (comment)
<#521 (comment)>
- The only downside of this is that it's less of a 'team' event and
more of one person speaking at any given time, but having a recording of
this is much better than no recording!
- The quality of the recordings is great, but of course very subject
to the internet issues and lags of the host, so it's *imperative that
the host has a good internet connection*!
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Update for now
I have upgraded up to the paid plan (no 40 minute cut-off) and will keep a close eye on which of the features we use. We can also test this with some benevolent external people like the Club Soda team and unless we have major issues, use it for our increasingly fewer external calls 👍 Account upgraded: What this _doesn't _ resolve is the problem @SimonLab mentioned above #521 (comment) of requiring one host so we ultimately need to pay for more hosts - let's do this as needed. This is also my acknowledgement of the fact that if we're going to spend upwards of £80 or £90 a month on this tool, we need a clear plan for where recordings are going to live, what they will be named how they will be used. |
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@olizilla thanks for your feedback. ❤️ "least bad" is the first step toward "good". @rub1e thanks for the link to the Google Meet recording feature. @iteles the recording only showing the speaker must be a setting that can be changed.
@iteles given that there is no "security risk" in sharing the meeting host access with people in the "core" team, you can share your Zoom.us login with me or @SimonLab without "fear". We definitely don't need to pay "£80 or £90 a month" for this tool. (we only need one host account) |
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@Cleop Looks like it's not when the host isn't present but possibly because you can't just reuse a meeting ID, you have you schedule the meeting in Zoom first. Looking into it 👍 |
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It might be linked to #521 (comment) but this morning I couldn't start the meeting with the id we have been using so far (the one on the calendar notification). I'm not sure if I didn't set it up properly or if my zoom client didn't allow me to reuse the id of the previous meetings |
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@SimonLab Looks like you just can't reuse a meeting ID. I tried the meeting ID we used yesterday like you guys did and it didn't work for me either. Looks like: meeting IDs are one time usage unless you actually schedule a meeting within Zoom and then it knows that it can be reused. |
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Guys we are getting carried away with making assumptions instead of actually asking the appropriate questions. Not only are meeting IDs re-usable we can define a human readable ID e.g: /dwyl. |
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@nelsonic The human-readable URL (vanity URL) is reserved for the next level up of payment plan which requires a minimum of 10 hosts (i.e. £160 a month) 😉 On our plan though, we can define any numeric value for the personal ID. More interestingly, as you were typing that, I was investigating and came across this little (at the time, unticked) box: So it looks like this single URL can be used 'on the fly', just not any old Zoom URL. Testing it for tomorrow! |
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Yes this is the UI you see when the meeting hasn't started yet, as opposed to the invalid code error: This is more informative for clients. |
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I did a screen share with zoom yesterday that lasted about 30minutes. It made my laptop VERY hot (🔥) and I noticed that things started to run slightly slower than normal. |
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@RobStallion interesting. thanks for reporting your experience. 👍 Have you ever tried to record your screen using QuickTime (Mac Native recording App) for that length of time? (if your laptop did not overheat I would be very surprised...) 🤔 When I use Google Hangouts/Meet with QuickTime to record it destroys the battery of my MacBook Air laptop in 20 mins (which usually lasts ~3h doing "normal" work) and overheats like an oven... 🍕 Interesting that you felt a noticeable slowdown on your MBPr"15 ... 💭 Generally speaking, when screen-capturing, unless you're recording a VR game dev session with lots of polygons to render, there isn't need for processor/GPU speed ... It would be great if screen recording was not "taxing" on our machines, but sadly that's not the case. Either way, good to keep an eye on. |
Once during FAC so I can't really say. I might check it out just to see what happens. I wasn't actually recording the screen though. I was just sharing (I don't know if this has the same effect but my guess would be it should be less taxing than sharing and recording).
Yes I was. I never had this happen when I was using hangouts but maybe that was to do with the fact that I used hangouts in chrome? One less 'hungry' thing running. (I just realised that I was also plugged into a 4k display which could also have been playing a role. Pushing more pixels is more taxing. That being said I have done that on hangouts so idk what it is 🤷♂️). |
I think the biggest issue here is the line: "I’ll do a meeting where I have lots of people in case we need to get their input" which I disagree with as a strategy entirely and kills the premise of this paragraph. But a good reminder that there are lots of different points of view on this! |
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I'm upgrading to the annual plan (£119.90/year or £9.99/month) because I want to have meetings (remote pairing mostly) that last longer than 40 mins and don't give me a count-down that is visible in the video (esp. if recording...) £9.99/month might seem like a "lot" of money to pay for something that is "free" in Google Hangouts/Meet or Skype, etc. but as stated above: this is a business tool that I expect to use every day. In the interest of not wasting time with researching other "free" tools with comparable features, I'm signing up to a year of Zoom. If in the next 12 months anyone has a viable alternative suggestion, I'd be happy to consider it! |
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Closing issue for now. Got 12 months of Zoom. 🔍 |
Story ... 🤙 |> 😞 |> 💡
As a product owner, team member or stakeholder
I want an excellent way of running/attending & recording remote team meetings with great quality
So that I can communicate effectively with teammates and never lose any insight.
Additionally if/when I am unable to attend the meeting,
I need a quick+easy way of catching up on the meeting by watching a video (double-speed!)
Context 💭
We have been using Google Meet (formerly "Hangouts") for the past 3 years to conduct all our remote meetings. It's been "OK" (good but not great) and @iteles captured our evaluation in #397 ...
Long story short: I (Nelson) am not "happy" with using Google Meet as I feel the product is an "MVP" that never got any "UX TLC", advanced or "pro" features. I feel that if we are going to be a "remote first" company/org we need to pay for a professional solution for our meetings.
I know that other people are "OK" with using G'Meet but we cannot afford to have an "OK" tool.
Our tools need to be the best for each task that we perform. As a remote team we need the best communication tools so that we are never forced to compromise on our UX e.g: noisy/poor audio, delayed video (when presenting), squashed aspect ratio (when pair-programming), on-screen controls covering the text (when viewing a presentation), etc.
Not having a built-in way to record a product/client demo so that other stakeholders (or not-present team members) can play it back is a real handicap that we need to address.
“Don't worry about the cost of a shovel when you’re digging for gold”.
Proposal 📝
I propose that we switch from using G'Meet to using https://Zoom.us/
because it is a single-product focussed company/app that does one thing really well.
There is zero ambiguity on their home page as to what they do.
Product: A Dedicated Service/App for Meetings ✅
https://zoom.us/meetings
Pricing: €13.99/Month 💸 (quite cheap really...)
https://zoom.us/pricing
Pros ➕
Cons ➖
see: https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/214629443
The web client is perfect for our "Clients" who only want to attend the call and ask/answer questions but don't necessarily want/need any "advanced" functionality like keyboard shortcuts, live chat or the ability to mute another attendee.
Short Term 📈
In the short term we are going to start recording our team meetings.
In the same way that the IPFS team do. e.g: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRAdkNnAnuU
This will allow people who are unable to attend a meeting (for whatever reason e.g: dentist/doctor)
to replay the meeting and "catch up" with what was discussed/shared/decided/agreed at double speed!
It will also add a level of accountability to our meetings because "action items" will be recorded.
Longer Term 🎯
Our goal has always been to have a hypertransparent company/organisation.
Longer term I expect us to allow the people using our App to attend our weekly team meeting where we discuss the priorities and become a truly "open company" see: https://www.opencompany.org/about/
Our Weekly Product (Time App) Demos are going to be recorded.
We will link to the recording in the Weekly "release notes". Yes, 1-Week Sprints; we need to move fast!
Once we have some momentum with our product we will invite key stakeholders
(e.g: "influencers" in the personal effectiveness community e.g: Thomas Frank, Cal Newport, Tim Ferris, etc.) to attend our Weekly Demo Meetings and we will present the feature that is most relevant to them with mini interview where we ask them for their "first thoughts & feedback".
This content (video) will be re-packaged as the @dwyl weekly update podcast which the @dwyler community will watch to be informed of the latest features in our App and learn from the "super achievers".
It's a Tim Ferris Podcast meets Personal Effectiveness super-user podcast.
Not really for "mass market" but for our "super fans".
https://medium.com/swlh/how-to-make-something-people-love-a8364771b7e6
Todo ✅
Everyone to Read through the https://zoom.us website features and see if there is anything I am missing ... any caveats? Terms+Conditions issues? Got any questions that are unanswered?
Share your concerns/feelings on switching from G'Meet (the Devil we know...)
Share suggestions for alternative tools if you have any! (the only reason I'm proposing a new tool at the same time as I'm opening the issue for the "problem" is that I want to "fix" this ASAP!)
Please Discuss! 💬
Please add your thoughts/ideas/alternatives/concerns as comments below.
We will be looking to switch away from Google Meet as soon as Monday 4th.
So if you have strong feelings about this, please don't sit on the fence; speak up!
Thanks! ✨
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